Comments on: Websites are Hard to Build http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/ What would OJ do? Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:33:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Dan http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/comment-page-1/#comment-1148 Dan Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:03:58 +0000 http://buffered.io/?p=585#comment-1148 Agree, as long as it's also useful for the "I think I know everything about websites" schmucks. Also agree, it's not gonna be easy... But then again... neither are websites (ba-doom tish)! Agree, as long as it’s also useful for the “I think I know everything about websites” schmucks. Also agree, it’s not gonna be easy…

But then again… neither are websites (ba-doom tish)!

]]> By: OJ http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/comment-page-1/#comment-1147 OJ Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:58:49 +0000 http://buffered.io/?p=585#comment-1147 Definitely an interesting idea. Yup, I do reckon that it has been done before, but I doubt that it's been done in way that is affective. This happens quite a lot: someone will attempt to diagram something to make it clearer, but they only serve to make it appear more complicated to those who don't already understand it. Most of these kinds of checklists and/or diagrams are written by those people who know it, and directed at those people who know it. We should collaborate and come up with something meaningful that the average "I know nothing about websites" Joe can understand and appreciate. Definitely an interesting idea. Yup, I do reckon that it has been done before, but I doubt that it’s been done in way that is affective. This happens quite a lot: someone will attempt to diagram something to make it clearer, but they only serve to make it appear more complicated to those who don’t already understand it. Most of these kinds of checklists and/or diagrams are written by those people who know it, and directed at those people who know it.

We should collaborate and come up with something meaningful that the average “I know nothing about websites” Joe can understand and appreciate.

]]> By: Dan http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/comment-page-1/#comment-1137 Dan Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:53:33 +0000 http://buffered.io/?p=585#comment-1137 I know. I know, and dismay! Oh how I know! Maybe that's something that needs addressing here - we all agree that people wanting websites built for them mostly underestimate how difficult they are to be made - another good point is making new dev's / designers understand the complexities. I'm just rapping here, and flame me if you think this idea is absurd - but maybe a complexity checklist is in order. A simply communicated but complete diagram of the complexity of a website. Something that you can point to and say "Look! OK, our project fits in here... see what is required?" There's probably already something like this out there... I know. I know, and dismay! Oh how I know!

Maybe that’s something that needs addressing here – we all agree that people wanting websites built for them mostly underestimate how difficult they are to be made – another good point is making new dev’s / designers understand the complexities.

I’m just rapping here, and flame me if you think this idea is absurd – but maybe a complexity checklist is in order. A simply communicated but complete diagram of the complexity of a website. Something that you can point to and say “Look! OK, our project fits in here… see what is required?”

There’s probably already something like this out there…

]]> By: OJ http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/comment-page-1/#comment-1139 OJ Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:46:15 +0000 http://buffered.io/?p=585#comment-1139 @Dan: Again, I agree. But it's hard not to come across as a preacher when you're trying to educate people who don't want to be educated. And therein lies the crux of the problem. It's easy to teach those who want to learn. Teaching those who have no interest is nigh impossible (I'm sure you of all people would know that ;) ). @Dan: Again, I agree. But it’s hard not to come across as a preacher when you’re trying to educate people who don’t want to be educated. And therein lies the crux of the problem.

It’s easy to teach those who want to learn. Teaching those who have no interest is nigh impossible (I’m sure you of all people would know that ;) ).

]]> By: Dan http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/comment-page-1/#comment-1140 Dan Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:43:34 +0000 http://buffered.io/?p=585#comment-1140 The SHOULD all be fired. Resource schedules SHOULD be kept up to date. Family members SHOULD realise that things aren't as easy as you make them sound. Corporates SHOULD listen when you tell them testing even on a simple page is important.  We as web dev's / designer's shouldn't stop trying to educate. The SHOULD all be fired. Resource schedules SHOULD be kept up to date. Family members SHOULD realise that things aren’t as easy as you make them sound. Corporates SHOULD listen when you tell them testing even on a simple page is important. 

We as web dev’s / designer’s shouldn’t stop trying to educate.

]]> By: OJ http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/comment-page-1/#comment-1141 OJ Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:38:11 +0000 http://buffered.io/?p=585#comment-1141 @TheNapoleon: Need I say more? :) It's so true mate, there are a crap load of businesses out there which rely on a "star programmer" who apparently just "gets things done" then moves onto the next problem. They fail to see that the rest of the team has to carry the shit was produced, and fight constantly against the poor code and bad design decisions just to get little extra bits implemented. Of course, that doesn't mean the "start programmer" isn't any good, it's the fault of the rest of the team for not being as "up to speed" as the "star programmer". They should all be fired. ;) @TheNapoleon: Need I say more? :) It’s so true mate, there are a crap load of businesses out there which rely on a “star programmer” who apparently just “gets things done” then moves onto the next problem. They fail to see that the rest of the team has to carry the shit was produced, and fight constantly against the poor code and bad design decisions just to get little extra bits implemented. Of course, that doesn’t mean the “start programmer” isn’t any good, it’s the fault of the rest of the team for not being as “up to speed” as the “star programmer”. They should all be fired.
;)

]]> By: TheNapoleon http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/comment-page-1/#comment-1142 TheNapoleon Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:12:48 +0000 http://buffered.io/?p=585#comment-1142 BUT IT DOES WORK ON MY MACHINE! Great rant, it brings to mind all of those developers who are regarded as "very very good" by mananagement just because they seem to develop applications very quickly but when you scratch the surface (or just blow on it) you are not suprised to see a world of problems... Y. BUT IT DOES WORK ON MY MACHINE!

Great rant, it brings to mind all of those developers who are regarded as “very very good” by mananagement just because they seem to develop applications very quickly but when you scratch the surface (or just blow on it) you are not suprised to see a world of problems…

Y.

]]> By: OJ http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/comment-page-1/#comment-1143 OJ Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:48:45 +0000 http://buffered.io/?p=585#comment-1143 @Rich: I usually delete comments like this, but since you added something insightful other than the shameless plug I'll let it slip ;) You're right re: the branding issue. It's constantly ignore or overlooked. For some reason "whacking the logo" on the site is good enough in the eyes of most companies. If you're serious about your market and products you should be serious about your brand as well. Thanks for the comment! @Rich: I usually delete comments like this, but since you added something insightful other than the shameless plug I’ll let it slip ;)
You’re right re: the branding issue. It’s constantly ignore or overlooked. For some reason “whacking the logo” on the site is good enough in the eyes of most companies. If you’re serious about your market and products you should be serious about your brand as well.

Thanks for the comment!

]]> By: Rich http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/comment-page-1/#comment-1146 Rich Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:59:41 +0000 http://buffered.io/?p=585#comment-1146 Excellent post! Two comments, and one shameless self-promotional bug. :-) One thing you don't mention are the client's brand issues. These can fall into both Design and Requirements. It's amazing to me how attention to brand generally comes down to "making sure the design looks right and includes the client's logo." Brand is <em>much</em> more than that, and any good site will incorporate brand into architecture, feature sets, content, user experience. The other point is that I totally agree with you on testing issues. I've been in the web biz for years, and it never ceases to amaze me how testing gets little more than lip service, often because schedules are too tight and don't allow for enough of it, and often because nobody knows how to do it, or cares enough to fight for it. So here's the shameless plug: We used a few different test platforms over the years, but found them too complex or unfriendly for a typical, small web boutique. Basically, only the techies could use them easily. So, we wrote a very lightweight, highly user-friendly app and just released it for the masses. http://www.archerfishonline.com Would love any feedback. :-) Excellent post! Two comments, and one shameless self-promotional bug. :-)
One thing you don’t mention are the client’s brand issues. These can fall into both Design and Requirements. It’s amazing to me how attention to brand generally comes down to “making sure the design looks right and includes the client’s logo.” Brand is much more than that, and any good site will incorporate brand into architecture, feature sets, content, user experience.

The other point is that I totally agree with you on testing issues. I’ve been in the web biz for years, and it never ceases to amaze me how testing gets little more than lip service, often because schedules are too tight and don’t allow for enough of it, and often because nobody knows how to do it, or cares enough to fight for it.

So here’s the shameless plug: We used a few different test platforms over the years, but found them too complex or unfriendly for a typical, small web boutique. Basically, only the techies could use them easily. So, we wrote a very lightweight, highly user-friendly app and just released it for the masses.

http://www.archerfishonline.com

Would love any feedback. :-)

]]> By: OJ http://buffered.io/2008/11/26/websites-are-hard-to-build/comment-page-1/#comment-1145 OJ Sat, 29 Nov 2008 23:53:03 +0000 http://buffered.io/?p=585#comment-1145 @OG: Great point! I had totally forgotten that :) Cheers. @OG: Great point! I had totally forgotten that :) Cheers.

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