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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;m so impressed I want to pay you less</title>
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	<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/</link>
	<description>What would OJ do?</description>
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		<title>By: OJ</title>
		<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/comment-page-1/#comment-2156</link>
		<dc:creator>OJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buffered.io/?p=805#comment-2156</guid>
		<description>Wow! That&#039;s a stellar entrance to the Bloggosphere mate :) Thanks muchly for the comment. It&#039;s the most insightful I&#039;ve had on here for ages. So thanks for taking the time to write it out. I hope that now you&#039;ve added your first thought to the Interwebs you&#039;ll keep the mojo up and comment more often. It certainly counts as an intelligent repsonse, and obviously one that you&#039;re well positioned to put forward.

I&#039;d like to add a few comments about what you&#039;ve said :) 

I like the metaphor you&#039;ve drawn between hiring employees and investment. I haven&#039;t actually looked at it that way before and I think you&#039;re dead right. So on the whole, I agree with everything that you&#039;ve said. But with one caveat: it&#039;s as a generalisation. That is, if you take out the &quot;extra good&quot; and &quot;extra bad&quot; employees and contractors I think that what you said holds water.

One of the reasons I&#039;ve found permanent work to be frustrating is the lack of control. As a programmer/dev you&#039;re hired to be a domain expert in something, but it&#039;s EXTREMELY rare to find a gig when you&#039;re actually given the freedom to do what you&#039;re good at. Now I know there are potentially a lot of reasons for this, but on the whole I think that there are many cases where employers could just &quot;let go&quot; and let the devs do what they&#039;re good at. Developers like to be given the freedom to do what they do best, and they operate the best when they&#039;re given that chance. How come it&#039;s such a rare thing to see?

When you&#039;re a developer working as a permanent employee, the idea of &quot;value&quot; doesn&#039;t seem to mean the same thing as when you&#039;re a contractor. By this I mean that a good developer tends not to be recognised or rewarded as a good developer compared to those that aren&#039;t as good or are blatantly awful. Let&#039;s be honest, every company tends to have some dead wood. Some have it because they feel that they&#039;re a family and can&#039;t get rid of it. Other have it because they have their hands tied due to red tape (ie. Government gigs). The thing that&#039;s frustrating for a permanent developer is that they&#039;re destined to suffer the same treatment as those who aren&#039;t as good at their job. The good devs work hard, the bad ones don&#039;t. They both get payrises, ongoing employment, the same amount of &quot;say&quot; in what happens, etc. However, as a contractor this is very different. People listen. People LOOK for the value in what you to because they are paying a lot in the short term for it. This is one of the things that is very fulfilling for me. My value is noticed more as a contractor because the client wants to make sure they&#039;re getting value for money. As a result, the contracting dead wood tends not to stick around for too long. Sure it does happen here and there, but it&#039;s not as bad.

As a contractor, one of the frustrations is the focuson the &quot;short term delivery&quot; as you so rightly put. In general, contractors do have a short term focus. Hell, if you look at my CV, you can easily argue I have one too! The ironic thing about it is that I honestly don&#039;t. What I haven&#039;t seen yet is a place which has a long term focus in line with mine. That&#039;s the mismatch for me. I would happily remain a contractor long term in a single spot, or even consider going permanent, so long as the conditions were right. No I&#039;m not talking cashola here (though that does have some weight, obviously). I&#039;m talking about letting me do what I am good at. Let me take direction for the technical aspects of the software. Let me take responsibility for the design decisions. Let me choose the right technology for the job. Let me deliver in the way I think I should deliver. I&#039;m not really sure why this doesn&#039;t happen, though it&#039;s probably something to do with employers wanting to feel like they&#039;re still in control.

This is what has been missing. Every gig I have been at I&#039;ve been hired as a Domain Expert, along with other contractors and permies, to get a job done. Yet every gig I don&#039;t get to do what I&#039;m paid to do in its entirity. That&#039;s what I&#039;m searching for. When I find it, I won&#039;t go anywhere! I just think that I won&#039;t find it anywhere other than my own business (which I am currently in the process of setting up).

Getting back to the point: I skip to new contracts when there is nothing left for me. Usually that means that the project is coming to an end, or the people involved aren&#039;t letting me do my job. Either way, there is no evidence of the longevity that I require, nor the presence of mind to realise that I need to be allowed to take responsibility for the software.

Your point about job security is a good one. When I wrote this article I could see that kind of retort coming, I&#039;m surprised it hasn&#039;t been mentioned before now. Most of the time that dead wood tends to be the worst kind of developer, and they are there for the wrong reasons. As a contrator I always get slapped with the &quot;you&#039;re only here to earn as much as you can before leaving a mess for the permies to maintain&quot; label, and I find it pretty damned annoying. It may be the case that the employer has had bad experiences with contractors in the past, and as a result I feel the brunt of their frustration and have to carry the baggage of my predecessors. That is certainly the case where I am now. What sucks is that it actually has a negative impact on productivity.

The cost of the contractor might not actually be that much more, but surely what the contractor sees at the end of the day is a lot more than what a dev sees. If that wasn&#039;t the case, you wouldn&#039;t have a market flooded with contractors. Permies definitely do work less than contrators, that&#039;s a no-brainer. It&#039;s also obvious that the pace/tempo that a permy works at is less than a contractor (in general). I personally don&#039;t believe that my intensity changes between permy and contractor roles. I like to operate at a decent level of speed and that has nothing to do with who I am working for, nor how much I am getting paid for it. I do that because that&#039;s how I like to work. Feeling productive is a must, and operating at a slow pace has a negative impact on that goal.

I certainly do see job offers as a compliment. Particularly when I have been working with the company as a contractor up until then. Job offers are always flattering. But I think the disconnect is that even though the cost might not be that different, what I see at the end of the day changes a lot because my pace doesn&#039;t change, and I don&#039;t get sick more often. My work ethic remains the same and hence my productivity does too. The issue becomes control. As I move to permy the control is lost. I&#039;m no longer responsible for certain decisions, particuarly around the direction or architecture of the software. That responsibility moves back to the employer who for some reason feel that they are better positioned to make those decisions. There lies the core of my frustration.

On the team side, I&#039;m not sure I agree that having a contractor is any different to having a permanent employee. In my experience, the permies are just as antisocial, if not more. I&#039;ve seen teams of contractors with great morale, great velocity and high quality. I&#039;ve seen teams of permies do nothing other than hurl abuse at each other. Contractors love to see something develop, evolve and find its place like any other dev. The only difference in my view is that they&#039;re not really given the chance to stick around and see it through. Most of the time the work is handed back to the permies and the contractors are let go. That&#039;s fine, because it&#039;s all about the economics right?

I challenge you or any other person to bring me in as a contractor and criticise my ability to work in the team as good as any permament emlpoyee. The recent feedback I&#039;ve got from the gigs I&#039;ve worked on has actually been that in a short period of time it feels like I&#039;m a permament employee and that I am able to keep the spirits of the team up as well as any permy. In fact, moreso, because I don&#039;t have to deal with a lot of the political bullshit that comes with many permanent gigs.

Perhaps this is hard to generalise on due to the nature of geeks :) In my case, I can&#039;t help but disagree. In the general case you may be right.

If I was working as a contractor for MS in the early days, I don&#039;t know where I&#039;d be now :) It depends. If Bill Gates wasn&#039;t the kind of person to allow me to take resonsibility for my work, and take direction on things that I think I should take the direction on then the chances of me leaving MS would be the same as me leaving any other gig in the present day. Sure, long term I may be financially worse off, but for me that&#039;s not the important thing. I love what I do, and I want to do it right!

I certainly haven&#039;t taken this as a contractor bashing comment at all mate. I&#039;ve thoroughly enjoyed reading it and thinking about what you&#039;ve said. Your tone was fine and the good intention is obvious. It makes for good discussion.

So to sum up: I would go perm, but my conditions are generally too extreme. Most employers are, for some reason, not prepared to let go and give me the responsibility that I want. The result is, usually, a half-baked solution to the problem, or a product that costs a fortune to maintain. Those two things are an awful burden, and as a Software Engineering professional who gives a shit about what he builds, they&#039;re not the kinds of things that I like to see happen especially when I feel I could have prevented it. So give me the gig which lets me do that, and watch me sit fat and happy for many years ;)

Cheers for the comment mate. It was nice to hear from you. And keep me in mind if you&#039;re looking to a contractor for short (or long) term work. :)

All the best mate.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! That&#8217;s a stellar entrance to the Bloggosphere mate <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Thanks muchly for the comment. It&#8217;s the most insightful I&#8217;ve had on here for ages. So thanks for taking the time to write it out. I hope that now you&#8217;ve added your first thought to the Interwebs you&#8217;ll keep the mojo up and comment more often. It certainly counts as an intelligent repsonse, and obviously one that you&#8217;re well positioned to put forward.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to add a few comments about what you&#8217;ve said <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I like the metaphor you&#8217;ve drawn between hiring employees and investment. I haven&#8217;t actually looked at it that way before and I think you&#8217;re dead right. So on the whole, I agree with everything that you&#8217;ve said. But with one caveat: it&#8217;s as a generalisation. That is, if you take out the &#8220;extra good&#8221; and &#8220;extra bad&#8221; employees and contractors I think that what you said holds water.</p>
<p>One of the reasons I&#8217;ve found permanent work to be frustrating is the lack of control. As a programmer/dev you&#8217;re hired to be a domain expert in something, but it&#8217;s EXTREMELY rare to find a gig when you&#8217;re actually given the freedom to do what you&#8217;re good at. Now I know there are potentially a lot of reasons for this, but on the whole I think that there are many cases where employers could just &#8220;let go&#8221; and let the devs do what they&#8217;re good at. Developers like to be given the freedom to do what they do best, and they operate the best when they&#8217;re given that chance. How come it&#8217;s such a rare thing to see?</p>
<p>When you&#8217;re a developer working as a permanent employee, the idea of &#8220;value&#8221; doesn&#8217;t seem to mean the same thing as when you&#8217;re a contractor. By this I mean that a good developer tends not to be recognised or rewarded as a good developer compared to those that aren&#8217;t as good or are blatantly awful. Let&#8217;s be honest, every company tends to have some dead wood. Some have it because they feel that they&#8217;re a family and can&#8217;t get rid of it. Other have it because they have their hands tied due to red tape (ie. Government gigs). The thing that&#8217;s frustrating for a permanent developer is that they&#8217;re destined to suffer the same treatment as those who aren&#8217;t as good at their job. The good devs work hard, the bad ones don&#8217;t. They both get payrises, ongoing employment, the same amount of &#8220;say&#8221; in what happens, etc. However, as a contractor this is very different. People listen. People LOOK for the value in what you to because they are paying a lot in the short term for it. This is one of the things that is very fulfilling for me. My value is noticed more as a contractor because the client wants to make sure they&#8217;re getting value for money. As a result, the contracting dead wood tends not to stick around for too long. Sure it does happen here and there, but it&#8217;s not as bad.</p>
<p>As a contractor, one of the frustrations is the focuson the &#8220;short term delivery&#8221; as you so rightly put. In general, contractors do have a short term focus. Hell, if you look at my CV, you can easily argue I have one too! The ironic thing about it is that I honestly don&#8217;t. What I haven&#8217;t seen yet is a place which has a long term focus in line with mine. That&#8217;s the mismatch for me. I would happily remain a contractor long term in a single spot, or even consider going permanent, so long as the conditions were right. No I&#8217;m not talking cashola here (though that does have some weight, obviously). I&#8217;m talking about letting me do what I am good at. Let me take direction for the technical aspects of the software. Let me take responsibility for the design decisions. Let me choose the right technology for the job. Let me deliver in the way I think I should deliver. I&#8217;m not really sure why this doesn&#8217;t happen, though it&#8217;s probably something to do with employers wanting to feel like they&#8217;re still in control.</p>
<p>This is what has been missing. Every gig I have been at I&#8217;ve been hired as a Domain Expert, along with other contractors and permies, to get a job done. Yet every gig I don&#8217;t get to do what I&#8217;m paid to do in its entirity. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m searching for. When I find it, I won&#8217;t go anywhere! I just think that I won&#8217;t find it anywhere other than my own business (which I am currently in the process of setting up).</p>
<p>Getting back to the point: I skip to new contracts when there is nothing left for me. Usually that means that the project is coming to an end, or the people involved aren&#8217;t letting me do my job. Either way, there is no evidence of the longevity that I require, nor the presence of mind to realise that I need to be allowed to take responsibility for the software.</p>
<p>Your point about job security is a good one. When I wrote this article I could see that kind of retort coming, I&#8217;m surprised it hasn&#8217;t been mentioned before now. Most of the time that dead wood tends to be the worst kind of developer, and they are there for the wrong reasons. As a contrator I always get slapped with the &#8220;you&#8217;re only here to earn as much as you can before leaving a mess for the permies to maintain&#8221; label, and I find it pretty damned annoying. It may be the case that the employer has had bad experiences with contractors in the past, and as a result I feel the brunt of their frustration and have to carry the baggage of my predecessors. That is certainly the case where I am now. What sucks is that it actually has a negative impact on productivity.</p>
<p>The cost of the contractor might not actually be that much more, but surely what the contractor sees at the end of the day is a lot more than what a dev sees. If that wasn&#8217;t the case, you wouldn&#8217;t have a market flooded with contractors. Permies definitely do work less than contrators, that&#8217;s a no-brainer. It&#8217;s also obvious that the pace/tempo that a permy works at is less than a contractor (in general). I personally don&#8217;t believe that my intensity changes between permy and contractor roles. I like to operate at a decent level of speed and that has nothing to do with who I am working for, nor how much I am getting paid for it. I do that because that&#8217;s how I like to work. Feeling productive is a must, and operating at a slow pace has a negative impact on that goal.</p>
<p>I certainly do see job offers as a compliment. Particularly when I have been working with the company as a contractor up until then. Job offers are always flattering. But I think the disconnect is that even though the cost might not be that different, what I see at the end of the day changes a lot because my pace doesn&#8217;t change, and I don&#8217;t get sick more often. My work ethic remains the same and hence my productivity does too. The issue becomes control. As I move to permy the control is lost. I&#8217;m no longer responsible for certain decisions, particuarly around the direction or architecture of the software. That responsibility moves back to the employer who for some reason feel that they are better positioned to make those decisions. There lies the core of my frustration.</p>
<p>On the team side, I&#8217;m not sure I agree that having a contractor is any different to having a permanent employee. In my experience, the permies are just as antisocial, if not more. I&#8217;ve seen teams of contractors with great morale, great velocity and high quality. I&#8217;ve seen teams of permies do nothing other than hurl abuse at each other. Contractors love to see something develop, evolve and find its place like any other dev. The only difference in my view is that they&#8217;re not really given the chance to stick around and see it through. Most of the time the work is handed back to the permies and the contractors are let go. That&#8217;s fine, because it&#8217;s all about the economics right?</p>
<p>I challenge you or any other person to bring me in as a contractor and criticise my ability to work in the team as good as any permament emlpoyee. The recent feedback I&#8217;ve got from the gigs I&#8217;ve worked on has actually been that in a short period of time it feels like I&#8217;m a permament employee and that I am able to keep the spirits of the team up as well as any permy. In fact, moreso, because I don&#8217;t have to deal with a lot of the political bullshit that comes with many permanent gigs.</p>
<p>Perhaps this is hard to generalise on due to the nature of geeks <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> In my case, I can&#8217;t help but disagree. In the general case you may be right.</p>
<p>If I was working as a contractor for MS in the early days, I don&#8217;t know where I&#8217;d be now <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> It depends. If Bill Gates wasn&#8217;t the kind of person to allow me to take resonsibility for my work, and take direction on things that I think I should take the direction on then the chances of me leaving MS would be the same as me leaving any other gig in the present day. Sure, long term I may be financially worse off, but for me that&#8217;s not the important thing. I love what I do, and I want to do it right!</p>
<p>I certainly haven&#8217;t taken this as a contractor bashing comment at all mate. I&#8217;ve thoroughly enjoyed reading it and thinking about what you&#8217;ve said. Your tone was fine and the good intention is obvious. It makes for good discussion.</p>
<p>So to sum up: I would go perm, but my conditions are generally too extreme. Most employers are, for some reason, not prepared to let go and give me the responsibility that I want. The result is, usually, a half-baked solution to the problem, or a product that costs a fortune to maintain. Those two things are an awful burden, and as a Software Engineering professional who gives a shit about what he builds, they&#8217;re not the kinds of things that I like to see happen especially when I feel I could have prevented it. So give me the gig which lets me do that, and watch me sit fat and happy for many years <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_wink.png' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Cheers for the comment mate. It was nice to hear from you. And keep me in mind if you&#8217;re looking to a contractor for short (or long) term work. <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
All the best mate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Romey</title>
		<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/comment-page-1/#comment-2157</link>
		<dc:creator>Romey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buffered.io/?p=805#comment-2157</guid>
		<description>At last a subject I can post a comment on. Yes OJ I do drop by now and then and have a look at the content. I just usually cannot offer any intelligent comments. Hopefully this counts as an intelligent comment. It also happens to be me first entry into a blog on the interweb. At 40 years of age I must admit that the social networking and blogosphere parts of the internet escape me.

As both a employer and permanent employee I think I can wade in the debate and offer some other insight that perhaps others cannot. I think the main difference between permanent and contract is the same as long term investing and short term investing. And just like investing everybody has their own risk profiles and reasons for choosing a strategy.

In my experience contractors are great from delivering short term jobs which are part of a &#039;bigger picture&#039; (and cannot be resourced internally) but if you ever wanted to build a product and take it through the full development lifecycle then I would never give that job to a contractor. They are just as likely to skip and jump to another contract than see the job through to completion. At the moment we are implementing a software licensing component, so rather than give that rather boring job to a permy we got a contractor in to do it. The permies are happier for it too:)

Security
The argument that a permanent job is not secure is also fast becoming a fallacy with the australian labour laws. As an employer it is becoming increasingly difficult to get rid of &quot;dead wood&quot;. And if you do follow the rules you can still end up being hit with an &quot;unfair dismissal&quot; suit, which is a whole new ball game. There is certainly a disincentive for employers to take on employees.

Cost to Employer
The cost of a contractor to an employer is actually not that much different to an employee and I really do not believe that contract is THAT much better. Consider this. The average employee gets 20 days leave per year, add onto that 14 public holidays in Queensland and that is a total of 34 days of leave per year. Now it is a well known fact that permies get sick more often than contractors, if a permy were to be sick less than 5 days a year then that would be a miracle (the australian average is 5.2 sick days per year).  Also most companies (mine included) give personal days.

The following table shows a basic calculation
Base		                                          100,000
Super	                             9%	     109,000
Amount Per Work Day	               2	      419
Leave	                               20	
Public Holidays	                       14	
Sick Days	                                 5	
Personal Days	                          5	
Actual Amount Per Work Day	216	505
Percentage Difference		       20%

The other things to consider from the employer’s cost point of view are “retrenchment costs”, “equipment and software costs”, “employee factor” (which is a soft factor applied to the productivity of a contractor over a permie), “bonuses”, “non productive time” (where the permie actually is between jobs) etc etc. All of these costs add up to at least 50% above the “salary” that the employee actually earns. So an employee who earns 100k a year, I could easily get a contractor in to do the work at 150k per year equivalent and still be no worse off. So when someone offers you a permanent position, just remember that it is a compliment that they want you.

Soft Issues
Being a part of a team is one of the things I find rewarding about my working life. Getting together with a team of like-minded individuals and making something out of nothing is what “blows my hair back”. While our team does that, contractors come and go and do bits but we get to see the whole thing develop from a concept to a product through the full cycle of development. We get to crack open a couple of beers on Friday afternoon and talk about the week gone by, but the contractors have to sit their beavering away because they get paid by the hour. In our little company we are going to open up the share register to employees. We will not be offering shares to the contractors obviously. I am sure that if you were a “contractor” to Microsoft in the early 80s you would have made a bit of coin but if you had stuck with them as an employee you would most probably be long retired (a mate of mine’s aunty was a secretary with them and she retired in the mid nineties and is still living off the spoils).

I hope this is not interpreted as a contractor bashing comment. It is just meant to point out that reasons other than money should be considered before choosing contract over permanent. We have had a number of contractors who have swapped over to permanent. It gave us a chance to “try before we buy” and they had a chance to see how we operate. All of them have worked out wonderfully. If you think, “I would never work for this company” as a contractor then DEFINITELY DON’T WORK FOR THEM. If you find a company with a great culture with people you respect, and long-term prospects for growth and personal development, grab it and run.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At last a subject I can post a comment on. Yes OJ I do drop by now and then and have a look at the content. I just usually cannot offer any intelligent comments. Hopefully this counts as an intelligent comment. It also happens to be me first entry into a blog on the interweb. At 40 years of age I must admit that the social networking and blogosphere parts of the internet escape me.</p>
<p>As both a employer and permanent employee I think I can wade in the debate and offer some other insight that perhaps others cannot. I think the main difference between permanent and contract is the same as long term investing and short term investing. And just like investing everybody has their own risk profiles and reasons for choosing a strategy.</p>
<p>In my experience contractors are great from delivering short term jobs which are part of a &#8216;bigger picture&#8217; (and cannot be resourced internally) but if you ever wanted to build a product and take it through the full development lifecycle then I would never give that job to a contractor. They are just as likely to skip and jump to another contract than see the job through to completion. At the moment we are implementing a software licensing component, so rather than give that rather boring job to a permy we got a contractor in to do it. The permies are happier for it too:)</p>
<p>Security<br />
The argument that a permanent job is not secure is also fast becoming a fallacy with the australian labour laws. As an employer it is becoming increasingly difficult to get rid of &#8220;dead wood&#8221;. And if you do follow the rules you can still end up being hit with an &#8220;unfair dismissal&#8221; suit, which is a whole new ball game. There is certainly a disincentive for employers to take on employees.</p>
<p>Cost to Employer<br />
The cost of a contractor to an employer is actually not that much different to an employee and I really do not believe that contract is THAT much better. Consider this. The average employee gets 20 days leave per year, add onto that 14 public holidays in Queensland and that is a total of 34 days of leave per year. Now it is a well known fact that permies get sick more often than contractors, if a permy were to be sick less than 5 days a year then that would be a miracle (the australian average is 5.2 sick days per year).  Also most companies (mine included) give personal days.</p>
<p>The following table shows a basic calculation<br />
Base		                                          100,000<br />
Super	                             9%	     109,000<br />
Amount Per Work Day	               2	      419<br />
Leave	                               20<br />
Public Holidays	                       14<br />
Sick Days	                                 5<br />
Personal Days	                          5<br />
Actual Amount Per Work Day	216	505<br />
Percentage Difference		       20%</p>
<p>The other things to consider from the employer’s cost point of view are “retrenchment costs”, “equipment and software costs”, “employee factor” (which is a soft factor applied to the productivity of a contractor over a permie), “bonuses”, “non productive time” (where the permie actually is between jobs) etc etc. All of these costs add up to at least 50% above the “salary” that the employee actually earns. So an employee who earns 100k a year, I could easily get a contractor in to do the work at 150k per year equivalent and still be no worse off. So when someone offers you a permanent position, just remember that it is a compliment that they want you.</p>
<p>Soft Issues<br />
Being a part of a team is one of the things I find rewarding about my working life. Getting together with a team of like-minded individuals and making something out of nothing is what “blows my hair back”. While our team does that, contractors come and go and do bits but we get to see the whole thing develop from a concept to a product through the full cycle of development. We get to crack open a couple of beers on Friday afternoon and talk about the week gone by, but the contractors have to sit their beavering away because they get paid by the hour. In our little company we are going to open up the share register to employees. We will not be offering shares to the contractors obviously. I am sure that if you were a “contractor” to Microsoft in the early 80s you would have made a bit of coin but if you had stuck with them as an employee you would most probably be long retired (a mate of mine’s aunty was a secretary with them and she retired in the mid nineties and is still living off the spoils).</p>
<p>I hope this is not interpreted as a contractor bashing comment. It is just meant to point out that reasons other than money should be considered before choosing contract over permanent. We have had a number of contractors who have swapped over to permanent. It gave us a chance to “try before we buy” and they had a chance to see how we operate. All of them have worked out wonderfully. If you think, “I would never work for this company” as a contractor then DEFINITELY DON’T WORK FOR THEM. If you find a company with a great culture with people you respect, and long-term prospects for growth and personal development, grab it and run.</p>
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		<title>By: OJ</title>
		<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/comment-page-1/#comment-1688</link>
		<dc:creator>OJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buffered.io/?p=805#comment-1688</guid>
		<description>Some would say yes :) I don&#039;t mind being asked, so long as you don&#039;t mind if I don&#039;t answer! :)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You can find out the going rates for contracting in Brisbane by looking at a variety of job sites. Bear in mind that they will vary depending on technology, skill level, experience, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some would say yes <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> I don&#39;t mind being asked, so long as you don&#39;t mind if I don&#39;t answer! <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You can find out the going rates for contracting in Brisbane by looking at a variety of job sites. Bear in mind that they will vary depending on technology, skill level, experience, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Carlo Hamalainen</title>
		<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/comment-page-1/#comment-1684</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlo Hamalainen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 06:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buffered.io/?p=805#comment-1684</guid>
		<description>Maybe it&#039;s rude to ask, but what sort of rates can an IT contractor expect to get in Brisbane?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it&#39;s rude to ask, but what sort of rates can an IT contractor expect to get in Brisbane?</p>
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		<title>By: OJ</title>
		<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/comment-page-1/#comment-1673</link>
		<dc:creator>OJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buffered.io/?p=805#comment-1673</guid>
		<description>It doesn&#039;t happen every time (eg. Gov agencies tend not to do it) but it does happen often :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#39;t happen every time (eg. Gov agencies tend not to do it) but it does happen often <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Amanda Leach</title>
		<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/comment-page-1/#comment-1670</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Leach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buffered.io/?p=805#comment-1670</guid>
		<description>hence the cycle keeps repeating. The permy offer sounds so predictable and must have you rolling your eyes a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hence the cycle keeps repeating. The permy offer sounds so predictable and must have you rolling your eyes a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: OJ</title>
		<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/comment-page-1/#comment-1657</link>
		<dc:creator>OJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buffered.io/?p=805#comment-1657</guid>
		<description>Long time no see Kel :) How are ya mate?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Variety is indeed one of the big wins for me too. I need to work on exciting software if I&#039;m going to be with it long term, and 99.9% of perm jobs just don&#039;t have that. At least with contracts you can get a variety of crap gigs instead of one single crap gig ;)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I agree with your point regarding control. I feel a bit more empowered as a contractor with regards to the work I can do. Having said that, I think part of the reason I didn&#039;t feel that as a permie was because of the companies I worked for. I think that experience would vary a lot from employer to employer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Long time no see Kel <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> How are ya mate?</p>
<p>Variety is indeed one of the big wins for me too. I need to work on exciting software if I&#39;m going to be with it long term, and 99.9% of perm jobs just don&#39;t have that. At least with contracts you can get a variety of crap gigs instead of one single crap gig <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_wink.png' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I agree with your point regarding control. I feel a bit more empowered as a contractor with regards to the work I can do. Having said that, I think part of the reason I didn&#39;t feel that as a permie was because of the companies I worked for. I think that experience would vary a lot from employer to employer!</p>
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		<title>By: kellpittock</title>
		<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/comment-page-1/#comment-1651</link>
		<dc:creator>kellpittock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buffered.io/?p=805#comment-1651</guid>
		<description>Since I&#039;ve been contracting, I haven&#039;t looked back!  Although sometimes I have wondered about my decision &lt;&lt;one particular company we have in common mate ;) &gt;&gt;  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think that if you are confident in what you&#039;re doing and build up a great reputation as a trusted resource in your given field, then the scary thought of &quot;What if I don&#039;t get work?&quot; when deciding to contract or newly contracting disappears and is replaced with &quot;Why didn&#039;t I do this sooner?&quot;  Keeping a professional attitude also guarantees repeat business and helps develop your network - you never know where you&#039;re next opportunity is going to come from!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The greatest thing about contracting for me is the variety - industries, systems, languages, business processes - and even though some places are great and other places not-so-great, I usually come away with having learnt something new.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think contracting gives some control back to the individual. I usually approach interviews with the viewpoint that I am also interviewing them - there has to be a mutual interest, not just a one-sided approach.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Permanency has it&#039;s place for some types of people, but certainly not for everyone!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I&#39;ve been contracting, I haven&#39;t looked back!  Although sometimes I have wondered about my decision &lt;&lt;one particular company we have in common mate <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_wink.png' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> &gt;&gt;  </p>
<p>I think that if you are confident in what you&#39;re doing and build up a great reputation as a trusted resource in your given field, then the scary thought of &#8220;What if I don&#39;t get work?&#8221; when deciding to contract or newly contracting disappears and is replaced with &#8220;Why didn&#39;t I do this sooner?&#8221;  Keeping a professional attitude also guarantees repeat business and helps develop your network &#8211; you never know where you&#39;re next opportunity is going to come from!</p>
<p>The greatest thing about contracting for me is the variety &#8211; industries, systems, languages, business processes &#8211; and even though some places are great and other places not-so-great, I usually come away with having learnt something new.</p>
<p>I think contracting gives some control back to the individual. I usually approach interviews with the viewpoint that I am also interviewing them &#8211; there has to be a mutual interest, not just a one-sided approach.</p>
<p>Permanency has it&#39;s place for some types of people, but certainly not for everyone!</p>
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		<title>By: jonathanconway</title>
		<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/comment-page-1/#comment-1650</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathanconway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buffered.io/?p=805#comment-1650</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not necessarily about being a good software engineer, and definitely not about being a generalist. The best paid seem to be the ones who have extremely good competency in a narrow specialization for which there&#039;s high industry demand.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And it has to be the kind of industry where you can either charge a few customers high rates or get a *lot* of customers on lower rates. A junior game developer won&#039;t make much of a salary, but if he develops a game himself or assembles his own team, he can make a small fortune, as some of the million-download iPhone games have proven.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At the end of the day, it&#039;s best to learn about your industry, find where the high-paying specialties are, and develop those skills. Being a generalist doesn&#039;t work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#39;s not necessarily about being a good software engineer, and definitely not about being a generalist. The best paid seem to be the ones who have extremely good competency in a narrow specialization for which there&#39;s high industry demand.</p>
<p>And it has to be the kind of industry where you can either charge a few customers high rates or get a *lot* of customers on lower rates. A junior game developer won&#39;t make much of a salary, but if he develops a game himself or assembles his own team, he can make a small fortune, as some of the million-download iPhone games have proven.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, it&#39;s best to learn about your industry, find where the high-paying specialties are, and develop those skills. Being a generalist doesn&#39;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: OJ</title>
		<link>http://buffered.io/2010/03/02/im-so-impressed-i-want-to-pay-you-less/comment-page-1/#comment-1649</link>
		<dc:creator>OJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buffered.io/?p=805#comment-1649</guid>
		<description>Nice comment Jonathan. I think you&#039;re right, the &quot;vested interest&quot; in IT from the business&#039;s perspective does indeed have an impact. That is, if the core business isn&#039;t technology related, then the upper management team tends to consider IT a support role and should be extremely cheap to run, even when building software packages that &lt;em&gt;support&lt;/em&gt; the core business.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The exception that you&#039;re talking about is the case of businesses which have a core business that is made up primarily of software development. They certianly do treat their devs better than in other enterprises, but that doesn&#039;t necessarily translate directly to a higher pay rate. Games development is a classic example. Most salaries in the game development world are shockingly bad, even if the developers are standout champions at their game (pun intended).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I know of only a few people in dev roles that earn that kind of money here in Australia. I&#039;m not earning anywhere near that. Yes they are extremely good at their job. Do I think they&#039;re better than me? Nope :) I certainly do devote the better part of my life to software engineering because I love it. Unfortunately for me it doesn&#039;t translate to the rate you&#039;ve mentioned.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I guess it could be because I&#039;m not &quot;damned good at my game&quot; :) But I&#039;m too ignorant to admit it :-P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice comment Jonathan. I think you&#39;re right, the &#8220;vested interest&#8221; in IT from the business&#39;s perspective does indeed have an impact. That is, if the core business isn&#39;t technology related, then the upper management team tends to consider IT a support role and should be extremely cheap to run, even when building software packages that <em>support</em> the core business.</p>
<p>The exception that you&#39;re talking about is the case of businesses which have a core business that is made up primarily of software development. They certianly do treat their devs better than in other enterprises, but that doesn&#39;t necessarily translate directly to a higher pay rate. Games development is a classic example. Most salaries in the game development world are shockingly bad, even if the developers are standout champions at their game (pun intended).</p>
<p>I know of only a few people in dev roles that earn that kind of money here in Australia. I&#39;m not earning anywhere near that. Yes they are extremely good at their job. Do I think they&#39;re better than me? Nope <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> I certainly do devote the better part of my life to software engineering because I love it. Unfortunately for me it doesn&#39;t translate to the rate you&#39;ve mentioned.</p>
<p>I guess it could be because I&#39;m not &#8220;damned good at my game&#8221; <img src='http://buffered.io/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Silk/emoticon_smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> But I&#39;m too ignorant to admit it :-P</p>
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